- Volume II
UNITED
STATES DISTRICT COURT
- JASON
SCOTT,
- ORIGINAL
- VS.
No. C94-0079
- RICK
ROSS, a/k/a RICKEY ALLAN ROSS;
MARK WORKMAN;
- CHARLES SIMPSON; CLARK ROTROFF; CULT AWARENESS NETWORK,
- a California Non-Profit Corporation;
- and
JOHN DOES 1 - JOHN DOE 20,
- Defendants.
- DEPOSITION
OF RICK
A. ROSS
- Phoenix,
Arizona
- October
28, 1994
- VOLUME
II
- ATKINSON-BAKER,
INC.
- CERTIFIED
SHORTHAND REPORTERS
- 330
North Brand Boulevard, Suite 250
- Glendale,
California 91203
- (818)
551-7300
- REPORTED
BY: BONNIE SUMIDA
- FILE
NO.: 9416169
A. I'd like to preface whatever I say in this regard by making this statement. That I recognize how painful this is for Thysen Scott and how painful it is for his mother, and that when any young person is sexually abused, particularly a minor, which is a felony, that it is a very serious matter. And that it's also very painful for the person who was abused to recall or to deal with it. However, she expressed to me that she had seen them both in various states of disrobement; that she had found -
Q.
Can you be more explicit than that, sir? Did she tell you that she found
them naked together?
A.
She told me that she felt that there was inappropriate behavior in regards
to how they were dressed when they were together and under what
circumstances.
Q.
Well, did she tell you specifically that she found them naked together?
A.
I do not remember her making that specific statement.
Q.
Okay. Did she make other specific statements about, as you call it,
various states of disrobement?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Be specific, sir.
A.
She talked about them wearing towels
Q.
What game?
A.
I do not remember. She felt it was inappropriate. Also, Mr. Rethmeyer
repeatedly insisted on sleeping over at Mrs. Tonkin's home, and he would
sleep in the same bed with her 14-year-old son, and at the time he was in
his I believe 30s and 13 an adult
member. I believe some type of youth minister at the Life Tabernacle
Church. Also, Mrs. Tonkin found rubbing oil for massages in the bedroom,
and, basically, she repeatedly insisted that Dave Rethmeyer constant -- He
would constantly hang around her son in what she felt was an obsessive,
unusual, bizarre manner. He bought him clothes, more or less what you'd
describe was a kind of classic pedophile profile, buying a lot of gifts for her son, constantly hanging around her
son, insisting on sleeping in the same bed with her son. The door was
closed a lot.
Q.
Did Thysen Scott have his own room?
A.
I believe so.
Q.
He didn't have a room with Matt or any other boys?
A.
I am not sure.
Q.
Did you ever ask that question? A. Ms. Kathy Tonkin didn't volunteer that
information.
Q.
Did not? I'm sorry?
A.
Did not volunteer that information that I remember. I remember her
mentioning something about Matt wanted to have his own room or insisting
that he have his own room. I don't know whether he did or not at that
home. It was a fairly large home.
Q.
Okay. Any other specifics that she gave that led her to have this concern
of a homosexual relationship between her son and Mr. Rethmeyer?
A.
Mr. Bowles, you're making a statement that I could not in any way, shape
or form agree with.
Q.
Oh?
A.
I don't believe in any way that Thysen Scott had a homosexual relationship
with Dave Rethmeyer. It is very clear to me not only from Tonkin's
statements but from Thysen Scott himself that
the relationship was one of sexual abuse of a minor child.
Q.
A homosexual abuse, sir?
A.
It was between Dave Rethmeyer and Thysen Scott, and, therefore, it was a
same sex situation of sexual abuse.
Q.
So, therefore, it was homosexual, sir, yes or no?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Thank you. Did you disclose to Mrs. Tonkin prior to deprogramming Scott
that you had a homosexual background?
A.
Mr. Bowles, I think that at this point you really have to ask yourself
what the purpose is of this deposition, and for you to sit here and make
nasty remarks -
Q.
It wasn't a nasty remark.
A.
-- which are accusatory remarks, nasty remarks that are completely
irrelevant.
Q.
I think it is very relevant.
A.
I don't think that there is any relevance whatsoever.
Q.
Are you refusing to answer the question?
A.
I refuse to engage in any conversation that boils down to just simply
harassment of me through a deposition.
Q. It is centrally relevant to this case in that we are addressing the homosexual relationship between Thysen and this man, allegedly.
A. I have previously -
MR.
RIVES: Let me interject here.
I, also, object to this. I think this is unwarranted. I don't see the
relevance of this kind of inquiry that would lead to the discovery to
admissible evidence. I think he's testified about information he received
from a mother concerning conduct between the child and someone else that
most people -- most parents would be very concerned about.
MR.
BOWLES: Well, I think most parents would be very concerned about the
background of a deprogrammer.. I think it's very relevant.
THE
WITNESS: Let me at this point try to do a little clarification.
Q.
(BY MR. BOWLES) Are you refusing to answer the question?
A.
First of all -
Q.
Are you going to clarify, or are you just going to refuse to answer the
question?
A.
First of all, let me say I would like to retract -- I would like to define
something. I said nasty because of the tone of Counsel's voice and the
accusatory manner.
Q.
Well, I disagree that my tone of voice was nasty.
A.
Your delivery was very clear to me. I
would like to say something right now that is very obvious to me is that
it is absolutely irrelevant to discuss what a person's sexual background
is any more than you would discuss, for example, if someone was involved
in - I think this kind of reflects Mr. Bowles, the kind of bigoted slant
to his remarks. For example, if one of Kathy Tonkin's daughters was
sexually molested by an adult male, would you, then, feel that it was
necessary in a deposition regarding someone, a man that she had shared
that information with, to say, "Is it true, Mr. Smith" -- I give
you a hypothetical name there -- "that you are a heterosexual? Is it
true, Mr. Smith, that you might have a heterosexual background?" I
mean this really kind of exposes the ridiculous nature of your
questioning.
Q.
Well, I am sorry if it makes you uncomfortable, Mr.
Ross, but either you are going to answer the question or not. It
has gone on -
A.
Well, it is irrelevant.
Q.
Are you going to refuse to answer the question?
A.
I refuse to answer the question.
Q.
Thank you. Now, in your initial conversations with Kathy Tonkin, I think
she testified that she had some dozen phone conversations with you prior
to your coming to Seattle the first time. Does that figure seem accurate to
you?
A.
I do not remember.
Q.
How many phone conversations do you recall having with her, best estimate?
A.
I don't remember.
Q.
In those phone conversations did you assist her by discussing the process
of deprogramming, what it would entail?
A.
I am sure, before I came up to Seattle, we discussed what was going to
happen when I came to Seattle and what would go on.
Q.
Did you discuss the need for security arrangements?
A.
Mrs. Tonkin specifically must have felt that security was necessary, and
decided to retain security.
Q.
Did you discuss that with her? That was my question. Just say
"yes" or "no". It's very simple.
A.
It may have been discussed.
Q.
Did you give your views on security in these deprogrammings to Kathy
Tonkin over the telephone prior to your arrival in Seattle?
A.
I don't know what you mean by "views."
Q.
Your opinion?
A.
I think Kathy Tonkin must have expressed a need for security. And I would
have to go along with the parent and their express need for security.
Q.
Okay. Did you give your opinion as to whether security was needed in phone
conversations prior to your going up there?
A.
That is a judgment call based on the decision of the parent as to whether
or not security will be used.
Q.
So if I hear what you are saying correctly, you did not give your opinion
on security; is that right?
A.
We may have discussed her need for.....
The
end of the transcript for the purpose of relevants
REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE
- I,
BONNIE SUMIDA, Certified Court
- Reporter,
certify:
- That
the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the time and place
therein set forth, at which time the witness was put under oath by me;
- That
the testimony of the witness and all objections made at the time of
the examination were recorded steno graphically by me and were
thereafter transcribed;
- That
the foregoing is a true and correct transcript of my shorthand notes
so taken. I further certify that I am not a relative or employee of
any attorney or any of the parties nor financially interested in the
action.
- Dated
this 31st day of October, 1994.
- (Signed)
- BONNIE
SUMIDA
-
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